Lilli Keeve
With over 35 years of experience in the industry, Michael Jackman is a producer and former Executive Vice President of Physical Production and Post for FilmNation Entertainment. His countless credits include Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind ais an associate producer, Greyhound, Gangs of New York, and The Aviator. Most recently, Jackman produced the BAFTA-winning and Oscar-nominated thriller Conclave directed by Edward Berger, starring Ralph Fiennes, Stanley Tucci, John Lithgow, and Isabella Rossellini.
Jackman spoke with Film Obsessive’s Lilli Keeve about how he got involved with the project, the challenges of being a producer, and the incredible experience of filming on location in Italy. The transcript following the video has been edited for length and clarity.
Film Obsessive: Congratulations on the multiple BAFTA wins and Oscar nominations for Conclave. That’s really exciting. I wanted to start with my first question: What initially appealed to you about the story after Tessa Ross optioned it?
Michael Jackman: I mean, the screenplay was brilliant. Tessa optioned it, had the screenplay written by Peter Straughan, and got Edward Berger involved. It was before Edward had done All Quiet. And then Edward and Tessa went out to Ralph. So by the time I got involved, there wasn’t a lot not to like – brilliant screenplay, Ed Berger and Ralph Fiennes and Tessa. But what I like about it is the thriller aspect of it. It’s just straight forward, kind of old-fashioned thriller. Keeps you on the edge of your seat. You’re following the rises and the falls and the backstabbing and the surprises and the twists and the turns. Kind of as Ralph is learning those…Cardinal Lawrence is learning those. I like the fact that you’re always on your heels a little bit, always surprised at what happens next.
Edward always talks about Alan Pakula being one of his influences in this kind of film…films like All the President’s Men that just sort of take you on this sort of interesting, exciting journey. So, it’s the entertainment and just the thriller aspect that I enjoyed. And then as a producer, how do you take what we get and the script and the cast and and make that into the thriller? And being able to participate in that process with Edward and my fellow producers was great.
That’s wonderful. Being a producer is no easy feat, and oftentimes people don’t fully understand how many layers are involved with producing and being a producer. Can you share some of the challenges and joys while working on the film and watching it come to life?
As a producer, you’re the problem solver in chief…that’s the job and you are always looking to solve problems whether they are creative problems or logistical problems or financial problems. You are always sort of looking ahead. And so one of the things that was interesting and exciting was the movie takes place, a lot of it in the Sistine Chapel, which is where we do all of our voting. We had to build our own Sistine Chapel. We built it full size in terms of the floor plan, and the walls are like 45 feet on each side and 60 feet in the front and back. There’s this big gate between it. There’s balconies, there’s the front. You could see the final judgment every day. So the actors would come in, they’d walk through the giant doors. I mean, it was fully enclosed.
You’d have to walk through the doors on the carpet and into this space. And you’re looking at, you know, Michelangelo’s Final Judgment in front of you, which is what the actual cardinals do when they come into the Sistine Chapel…that sets a tone. There was a moment when we were finishing the deal as we were building the set, and we were suddenly told for the first time after having been in Rome for months and building that, “Oh, yeah, nobody has the rights.” We don’t have the rights because they’re public domain. They’re a hundred years old. They’re like, yeah, I know the Vatican has those…So, is the pope gonna sue us? We were really worried about it because you’re supposed to have rights to any image you use but the Vatican City is their own city-state and make their own laws. They only licensed for five years and we didn’t go to them ’cause we didn’t want them to say no or have any issue. So, there are a few hours where we, you know, it’s like head down on the desk going, “What are we gonna do?” And then we learned through one of our Italian attorneys, we’re like, “How did they do it on the other movies?” ‘Cause there are a lot of other movies. We get two popes, the young pope. And there’s an archive in Florence called the Archivio Scala, which has the original Michelangelo drawings of the Sistine Chapel frescoes and they license and the Vatican has never sued anybody.
Wow. That certainly sounds more than stressful. I can’t even comprehend. My last question ties in with this next question. Were there any particular moments or interactions that made you remember why you love being a producer or just why you love movies in general?
Yeah, I think there’s the big moments, right? You got everybody, you got all your extras around and you got your actors and you have these big moments and you kind of do a lot of, you have the whole machine around you, but because we have the opening sequence, we’re all over…we have Ralph Fiennes walking through the Vatican City, or what was our version of Vatican City at night. And so we, very small group of us, like eight of us, maybe 10 of us, you know, did a midnight trip with Ed Berger and our photographer and one camera and just like wandered all around Rome with nobody around for like four hours, five hours just shooting. Then, we had some dawn shots that we wanted to get as well. And so that’s a little bit of guerilla filmmaking, but it’s so much fun because it’s, it’s very organic. And it’s like, “Oh, that’s a beautiful shot. Okay, let’s go get that.” And it’s less planned and some of that could be really fun. And, on the other side, we had a lot of, you know, the voting in the movie.
Edward had planned out so beautifully and so completely we had, you know, he had storyboarded every moment and we’d go and we’d shoot a scene and, you know, shoot a shot and cross it off the list. And that was awfully cool. And then there were moments where you don’t have a shot of him surrounded by the crowd and do you want that? He’s like, “No, no, it’s going to be better this way.” And it’s a movie about faith. So you learn to have faith and more faith. And then as you get to know a director like Edward Berger, you just need to have a lot of faith in his process because he’s so smart and so creative, and talented. And yeah, so my faith was strengthened during the film.
That’s really, really cool. And how was it working with the cast? Stanley Tucci, Ralph Fiennes…what was that like?
It was phenomenal. Everyone has their own styles, which is also fun. You know, whether they’re intense or relaxed or thoughtful or chill, I mean, they’re all different. But they’re also talented and they all bring, they bring so much to the moment and they give you options and the actors give each other, you know, really wonderful material to work with and they’ll help each other. Carlos Dietz played Benitez, Cardinal Benitez. And Carlos, we had done a worldwide search for this character. We didn’t want the actors to know him. We didn’t want the world to know him. We wanted somebody that nobody knew. And we found one person, and that was Carlos who we cast. But his first day on set, he’s got this big scene with Ralph Fiennes. And, you know, he’s understandably nervous. And Ralph was so kind and gave him so much to work with and was so patient. And you know, that’s great to see. And so, yeah, very professional people and enjoyable to be around.
Is there any message that you hope audiences take away from this very powerful, moving film?
I love that it’s powerful and moving in those ways. I think that from our perspective, it’s a thriller. It’s meant to be enjoyed and entertained and take you out of your world for a little bit. I want people to just enjoy this movie. I love that it promotes thought and faith and has these moments that people really respond to. But I hope people go see it to just be entertained and then take with it what you will.
That’s the magic of films…of moviemaking. You can just escape for a couple of hours and then go back to life.
Exactly.
Thank you so much, Michael, for taking the time to talk to me today. This was so wonderful.
Oh, thank you. Thank you so much. Appreciate your time.
