Lilli Keeve
Gregg Araki made an influential stamp on the New Queer Cinema movement of the 1990s with Totally F****d Up (1993), The Doom Generation (1995), and Nowhere (1997), the three staples of his Teen Apocalypse Trilogy. Centering in Los Angeles, these nihilistic, otherworldly, yet grounded movies feature youth living their most raw, passionate, and unapologetic lives. His subversive indie films became some of the most unique and distinctive movies of their time, remaining unforgettable cinematic achievements.
In honor of the Criterion Collection release of the Teen Apocalypse Trilogy, Film Obsessive’s Lilli Keeve spoke with lead actor James Duval about his frequent collaborations with Gregg Araki, his love of music, and what he enjoys outside of acting. The transcript has been edited for clarity and space.
Film Obsessive: James, thank you for taking the time to speak with me today. This is very, very exciting for me as a big fan of your work and Gregg’s work.
Thank you. I couldn’t be more excited and ecstatic to be here talking to you. I’m almost speechless and flattered to be here talking about it.
I wanted to ask what initially drew you to wanting to work and collaborate with Gregg?
I was very young when I met him…In fact, 18, and I had just moved to Hollywood, and I wanted to be an actor and he had approached me in a coffee shop. He saw that I had these headshots, like proof sheets, and so he’s like, “Maybe he’s an actor. And he’s got an interesting look.” He asked me if I’d be interested in reading for his no-budget films, that he makes these kind of low-budget queer-like John Hughes films, I had a great look and would I be interested. So I’m like, “Yeah, send me the script.” He sent me the script, and, to this day, it’s still probably one of the greatest things I’ve ever read.
I didn’t know I wanted to be an actor, and I ended up reading for Gregg and getting the part, but still didn’t know if I was going to pursue it. In other words, until I saw the movie I’m like, “What if I’m horrible in it, and I’m no good.” So I went and did the movie, and my experience making the movie was life-changing because I had read this script where I was relating to characters in a screenplay. I’d never read a screenplay before, but I related to these characters in such a way that were very similar, and, in some ways, exactly my struggle at the time that nobody in the early ‘90s or late ‘80s were speaking about, talking about, or could talk about. It was in such a natural organic language and emotion, not just for me, but all the young actors involved. We weren’t really having to act much when we were doing it. It was such a small crew with just Gregg and Andrea and one other person, and it was much more intimate. It became easier for us to just kind of let go, and we didn’t really see other people there and kind of just live those moments, and since we were living them already on the outside, it was like capturing a slice of life.
That’s beautiful. What’s so refreshing about Gregg is that he just lets young people be themselves, in the most authentic way. When I was re-watching the first film from the trilogy last night, it was just so captivating and unlike anything I had ever experienced before as a viewer. So, piggybacking off of that: How did your life change after starring in these projects that essentially shaped an entire generation of youth and influenced that as well?
I’m so floored to hear that. I mean, maybe I’m aware of it or not aware of it or try not to think about it so much. It really was just a reflection of how we felt and who we were, and a lot of it has to do with Gregg, being able to not only put into words in a script, not only be able to capture it but show it in a way, to present this piece that all of us who certainly made for a specific audience, especially back then, anyway. He wasn’t making this for a large audience, but he was making it for a group of people who we call ‘our people.’ And to be able to see something or be related or to be a part of something that was your language that not a lot of people spoke was powerful for our generation and powerful for us as actors and performers by liberating us from these rules of society and community that we already felt we were rebelling against. Gregg was very much rebelling against them, too. So, what was magical about Gregg, and is magical about Gregg, is we were —and he wasn’t trying to be groundbreaking — we wanted to challenge the status quo. We wanted to challenge society, but that’s because it was very organically how we felt at the time and who we were. And, it’s still who we are now. What’s incredible is to see it come full circle, because we had made progress when we came out of the ‘90s and the 2000s, and things had gotten better. We’d gotten a lot more progressive and a lot more open and a lot more understanding. Then, something happened in the last, ten, 20 years…enough for a generation to be affected by this.
So now it’s come to the forefront of a whole new generation who understands and is embracing these films in a way wasn’t as wholly accepted when we were younger. And so to see that unbridled chaotic energy and drive and inspiration to find who you are and to be individualistic and for it to be okay, not to follow the rules and confines of this book or this society, or this community that says, “You have to be like this or you can’t fit in.” We’re all different, and we can all embrace each other and love each other in that difference and be a part of the same communities, or at least learn to respect each other and learn to live together in harmony because we used to.
Oh, that’s so beautiful and poignant. Thank you for sharing that. I also wanted to ask, going back to the trilogy, out of all the characters you embodied, which one did (or do) you resonate and identify with the most?
It’s funny because there’s definitely pieces of me that were like Dark at the time and pieces of me that are like Jordan and pieces of me that are like Andy. And maybe because it’s the first thing I ever did, but I always felt like I really related to Andy from Totally F****d Up in a lot of ways…this internally driven, false bravado confidence, but inside, it’s on this deep eternal search for who I am and what I’m about and what I want and what makes me happy. I don’t know if it’s because it’s the first thing I did, but I’ve always felt an affinity to him, even though I think I’ve grown and matured and I do know what I want. I know who I am and I know what I’m doing, but I still have those Andy moments.
The characters are very different but there’s a lot of the same themes in all three films. I love how everything kind of ties together, even though they are separate films on their own. It’s the same with all of your characters as well, I think there’s definitely undertones of similar feelings, thoughts, and emotions.
James Duval: It’s funny because depending on the day, I could be more Jordan on one day and then more Dark on another day.
What filmmakers, musicians, or bands inspired you when you were younger? Gregg’s films have such amazing soundtracks. I was just wondering if there’s anything that you could share with me about inspirations.
Well, it’s a great question. Interestingly enough, the thing that Gregg and I had most in common when we met was the music. If you were to ask Gregg (or ask me) what our number one inspiration is it’s actually music above film. We both loved film, and he was a great educator and still a great educator of film. Before I met him, I had actually at 17 watched The Cook, the Thief, His Wife, and Her Lover by Peter Greenway. I was so attracted and appalled and disgusted and in love with this movie — I didn’t know you could do these things. Before that, I was really obsessed with Alex Cox’s Sid & Nancy and the use of music and punk rock and this story. I used to ditch school with my friends and watch that in second, third period for like a week straight, and we used to do things like that. When I met Gregg, the first thing we had in common when we spoke was The Smiths, The Cure, and Depeche Mode. We love the exact same music from old punk rock like X, The Germs, and Circle Jerks, all the way up to the new alternative music like Tears for Fears and Echo and the Bunnymen. As we moved into the ‘90s, he was not only embracing that same exact music, but he was this incredible educator of Jim Jarmusch movies and would tell me to listen to bands like Slowdive and My Bloody Valentine. We already had so much music in common, and everything that he introduced me to is my favorite music today. All of the filmmakers he introduced me to and Gus Van Sant, for example, again, are still some of the most inspirational and groundbreaking filmmakers around. I’m so thankful for that education and for the things that inspired me before because that biggest connection was alternative music — it was trying to break down the same doors as filmmakers were.
Then again, I was just really disturbed and attracted to Peter Greenway’s movie. Being able to do that with alternative music really helped to form who I am today.
I wanted to go back to world-building because Gregg has such a bizarre and spectacular universe that he’s created. Are there any particular elements of his style or approach to the subject matter that still speak to you today or that you can share some thoughts about?
One of my favorite things that’s always in his movies, and it’s still in his movies now, is while your characters are walking down the street and they’re having an intimate moment, and, all of a sudden, someone will run by in a trash bag with a knife, chasing someone else, stabbing them, or this guy dressed up as a clown appears with the dead dog and then disappears. Those are the crazy things I’ve always loved about his movies because that’s like real life living here in Hollywood
— it’s like a cartoon, and these outrageous things do happen. I remember when I was doing my first movie with him and learning to adjust that it became very natural for me early on is I’m running up to see my lover, Ian, and right before I discover he’s with someone else, and as I’m running up to his door, just randomly, this girl played by Nicole Dillenberg, who’s a lead actress from his movie The Long Weekend (O’Despair), is dressed up as a dominatrix, pulling down someone in their underwear, dragging him down the stairs. When my character runs up in this emotional move kind of stops and looks at it completely normal and then runs up and has the moment. I was beginning to understand his language and the kind of things he was putting in his movies this outrageousness and a world full of cartoon characters…even in your most intimate moments, you cannot get away from them, not if you’re living in Hollywood anyway. They’re like always there to remind you that the world’s just more crazier than you remember.
Definitely. I think that’s such a great ability of his to kind of blend the surreal with daily, mundane life. I love those elements of his movies a lot.
… And that the characters could be tender in the most vulnerable moments. There’s a moment we all search for because it’s in those moments that we actually truly connect with other people.
Exactly. They’re real humans, they’re real people, and they’re not fabricated. They’re just just regular people living their lives and trying to find themselves amidst a crazy, changing, and chaotic world. So, outside of making movies, what other things bring you joy? And what else are you passionate about?
I love listening to my music collection because I think I had about 4,800 albums now. I love making music. I grew up playing classical piano and played guitar in a couple of bands. At the moment, I’ve just started practicing and playing bass with this incredible artist, musician, and gentleman named Richard E, who’s a really good friend of David J’s from Love and Rockets and Bauhaus, and we’ll be touring probably in the fall with them, so that brings me a lot of great joy and is a lot of fun. I’m actually also starting to film a documentary on one of my favorite musicians who passed away, who’s very obscure, named the Jazz Butcher, who comes from David J’s old town in Northampton, who David and Kevin, his brother from Love and Rockets and Bauhaus, used to play in Jazz Butcher. I just started working on this documentary, so maybe in a couple of years, it’ll be done. That brings me joy.
I love both Bauhaus and Love and Rockets. What other films of Gregg’s have you really loved or identified with? I can already think of a couple that I really admire.
Mysterious Skin is my favorite movie of his. I was moved. I don’t think anyone else could handle that type of subject matter that tenderly or with hope in the midst of that darkness at the end of that. It speaks to me about my past and things that I’ve been through, so I think that is probably the most powerful one emotionally. Then, Smiley Face is the most kind of crazy, funny, outrageous one of them all, but I’m also quite a fan of Now Apocalypse. That’s another one that’s in the vein of our movies — I got to play a little part in that which was a real joy. It’s almost always whatever he does next becomes my new favorite one because he does these things that only Gregg does, and you’re only going to ever see it in his movies. And in some ways when I went from Now Apocalypse to watching Splendor and Mysterious Skin and Smiley Face and realizing: “Did he just go further in that movie than he’s ever gone before?”
In Kaboom, he certainly went further than he ever went before. Every time he keeps pushing the envelope further, but it’s everything that I know and understand. And, to give you another perfect example, every time that I read his scripts when he sends them to me, there’s nobody in the world that writes like him, and there’s nobody in the world that makes me laugh. They’re crazy, they’re funny, they’re sexy, and they’re dynamic. I don’t get that from anything else and they do jump off the page. I’m gonna do a little part for him in his new movie and there’s these things pop up and I didn’t expect that, but of course, only Gregg’s gonna do that. If you haven’t seen the series Now Apocalypse, or the people haven’t seen it, go watch that because as I was reading those scripts in that series, I couldn’t believe Starz is going to let him do this. I can’t believe we’re getting away with this. I can’t believe they’re going to let me do this. When you show up on the day, you take it as far as you could go because why not? That’s what it’s like reading his scripts — they are works of art themselves, and each consecutive one pushes it further. I think Now Apocalypse is the sexiest show ever, but he’s got other stuff coming, so let’s see.
I am so looking forward to what’s next for both you and Gregg. I love your passion and enthusiasm, and it’s been so wonderful to speak with you today, James. Thank you.
Thank you for your time and thank you for everything. It was an absolute pleasure.
